I would say Mustang's shot most down, because there were more of them escorting bombers and ground strafing. Hit by 12.7mm bullets: destroyed. Answer (1 of 17): Some interesting fighters are often overlooked in discussions of three "1st generation" jets: the Me 262 (operational from 1944), F-86 (1949) and MiG-15 (1949). Google uses the Personal Data collected to track and examine the use of this site, compile reports on its activities and share them with other services developed by Google. (Drew's assigned airplane was Detroit Miss, a P-51D-10-NA, 44-14164, marked E2 D.) Urban L. Drew joined the U.S. Army Air Corp in 1942 and trained as a P-51 fighter pilot. its strengths, the P-51 was more than capable of taking on the feared Me 262 on It definitely didn't help when at one point, a pilot took four 30mm shells and was still intact after. P-51 Mustang vs. Messerschmitt Me-262 - Which WWII fighter was better? The all-important climb rate for a P51D sat at 3200ft per minute whilst the Spitfire could climb at an impressive 3650ft per minute. The Allies soon learned to attack the 262s when they were the most vulnerable, and most 262 kills by Allied aircraft were during takeoff or landing, or on the ground (where many of them sat, due to lack of fuel and qualified pilots towards the end of the war). but it's a pretty good book ;-), I may take a look at that book, thanks. The ratio's for Mustangs was ~ 10.7:1, the P-47's ~ 7.5:1 and the P-38's were ~ 2.6:1. Reported by some sources to have lost his life that day, Ambs actually walked away from the experience and lived a long life (he would live to see history buffs build and fly an Me 262 replica in a new century), but he never fought again. FW-190 had an engine as powerful as P-47 Thunderbolt but was sleeker and smaller. kill while flying in his piston-engine F-51D Mustang named Buckeye Lee Archer returned from the war he was the Tuskegee Airmens high scorer with four aerial victories only to be refused service in a railroad dining car while traveling with his wife to his next military assignment. I was indicating Lastly, the Me 262 had a bit of a wildcard role it was tested as a potential interceptor for Americas flying bombs (such as the V1) and even a makeshift transport aircraft. It may not display this or other websites correctly. to haul back on the stick to stay with him.. But which fighter was better? In 1944, as Allied forces began to gain ground in Europe and the war seemed nearing its end, Nazi leaders were desperate for any advantage they could get. In terms of design, both planes had sleek, aerodynamic shapes that made them fast and agile. The Yak-9? TJ3 History 35K views 1 year ago P-51 Mustangs Clash with Me-262 Fighters in an Epic High Altitude Dogfight IL2. Feb 1, 2010 Thread starter #7 Zniperguy114 Airman 67 0 Over the German capital, they encountered Me 262s. "Chuck" Yeager (double ace) : Returning from an escort mission, after get. The 332nds aircraft had distinctive markings that gave them the name Red Tails. U.S. Air Force photo. Actual top speed depends on altitude and other factors. However, as with other turbojet engines at the time, the Me 262's engines did not provide sufficient thrust at low air speeds and throttle response was slow, meaning in certain circumstances such as takeoff and landing, the aircraft became a vulnerable target. and 258th victories, but as he returned home he was apparently intercepted by Not an academic comparison -- a Mustang and Corsair really were in a dog-fight. View the Cookie Policy. [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights"]. Of actual air-to-air kills of Me 262s (not those claimed during takeoff or landing), which Allied aircraft scored the most Me 262 kills? Actual top speed depends on altitude and other factors. Each fuel drop tank is jettisoned, As the skies they try to cleanse. Out of nowhere, 25 Me 262s appeared, flying over 150 miles per hour faster than they could. La Mustang, une icne mcanique. So, which one is better? The P-51 is a purebred fighter, agile and fast. firing from about 400 yards, with 30 degrees deflection. In a stroke of luck, famed test pilot and racing champion, Curtis LeMay, met engine designer R.J. Mitchell at an air show and suggested adding the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine to the Mustang. film, was eventually credited with the destruction of two Me 262s. out. Try the F-15 Eagle. Its one disadvantage -- its climb-rate wasn't good -- was solved in light-weight P-51H. 'He As the Wiki article confirms: Allied pilots soon found that the only reliable way to destroy the jets, as with the even faster Me 163B Komet rocket fighters, was to attack them on the ground or during takeoff or landing. I saw a crash and a puff of black smoke. Not sure about any others, though I would imagine the USAAF and RAF ratios in Europe were somewhat lower. It would not be until Oct. 7 that a Mustang The Me 262 was the first operational jet fighter in history. the Mustang. (E) 2 x 20mm Hispano cannons and 2 x 12.7mm Browning heavy machine guns OR 4 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. Wrote Brown in his after-action report: I pulled up at him in a fifteen degree climb and fired three long bursts at him from 2,000 feet at eight oclock to him. This website uses technical and profiling cookies. ", "He [Col. Joseph Rogers] more than made up for his lack of combat in the Korean War -- or In that month, the Messerschmitt Me 262 began to appear in combat. The attack on the bombers was ineffective because of the prompt action of my flight in breaking up the attack.. The Messerschmitt Me 262, nicknamed Schwalbe or swallow, was a force to be reckoned with in the skies during World War II. 3x ME 262s were shot down; 1x ME 262 was destroyed by the gunners on US bombers, 2x ME 262s were shot down by P-51 fighters of the 339th Fighter Group.Ofw. The Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe ("Swallow") was a German aircraft, the world's first operational jet-powered fighter . (conservapedia.com), P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? (f-106deltadart.com)] Fw-190 vs P-47 bf-109. The P-51D Mustang? U.S. Air Force photo. Mai 1941: Republic P-47: 15. The P-51 and the Me 262 are similar in that they were both used as fighter planes during WWII. [ref: video: "Eighth Air Force Fighter Combat vs ME-163 Rocket-Propelled and ME-162 Jet-Propelled Aircraft"]. But sometimes, said 332nd pilot Roscoe Brown, we wondered if we had the support of those behind us. The AAF had plenty of officers like Col. (later, Gen.) William Spike Momyer who wrote that black pilots were inferior, and Maj. Gen. Edwin House, commander of XII Air Support Command Momyers boss who wrote, the Negro type has not the proper reflexes to make a first class fighter pilot. Other leaders expressed this view in a prewar Army report, The Use of Negro Manpower in War often quoted during Black History Month which said that black men are very low on the scale of human evolution.. It depends on what youre looking for. P-38 Lightning WinbiTV. The car is only 4 mph with like-for-like gearing than the brushed setup it previously had - but the difference is whereas the brushed motor got quite hot, the brushless motor was completely cold. He joined the 361st Fighter Group in . home. Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. Playing next. (pushing throttle on a Merlin V-12 engine shoved pilots back into their seats). The other jet aircraft was about 500 yards ahead of me and had started However, it soon proved its capabilities in almost every theater of war and became the most successful fighter in history, with 15,000 units produced during wartime. Let's find out! My research for 8th AF only has ~ 100 Me 262's Awarded (independent of either claims or actual) by 8th AF FC. The transfer of data can only take place anonymously and with prior consent. [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? As the jets began to move across This was made using the World War II flight simulator IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles series. A shotdown Me 262 captured by a P-51 Mustang gun camera. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Worse was to come on the afternoon of Nov. Another time, when on patrol, he shot down several US B-17 Flying Fortress bombers that didn't react to repeated warnings. (B) 2 x 20mm Hispano cannons and 4 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. It only takes a minute to sign up. while escorting P-51D Mustangs were poised to convert altitude to diving speed. [ref: Caygill]. I don't have a resource to cite, but I recall a video interview with a then-elderly Mustang pilot who described the speed of ME262 climb and said he shot one down by out turning it and "setting up a line of 50 cal" for it to fly into. There is a newer edition of the book, but I do not have it.). Two seconds later, I saw another piece hit close to the first piece. Trials continued slowly, with initial operational missions against the Allies in August 1944, and the unit made claims for 19 Allied aircraft in exchange of six Me 262s lost. Actually, lack of trained pilots and fuel was more of a problem than airworthy Me-262s. Clicking on "Accept" authorises all profiling cookies. The Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet was a German rocket-powered fighter aircraft. So doesn't seem fair to put the best, top of the line piston fighter agiast the first sucessful jet one? Though ultimately, it was too little too late, the unmistakable roar of its engines striking fear into Allied troops as they raced through the skies was all the encouragement Nazi leaders needed to push forward with its development and construction. All rights reserved. I fired three short bursts and saw the plane emitting smoke. came into firing range. Today, the P-51 continues to fly in air shows as a symbol of American military prowess and talent in aircraft design. JeuxVideo.com. Where they failed was in designing practical airplanes using available technology and materials. opportunity to fire at the jet in a head-on pass trading gun for TO roughly 400 kills possibly to the Me 262 units. Something else entirely? Personal Information processed: Usage Data; Tracker, Aviation History / Military Aviation / Warbirds, Dario Leone and The Aviation Geek Club, 2016. (Nowotny apparently was shot down after failing to outdive Mustangs) explosion, and a sheet of red-orange flame shot out over an area of about 'This was unusual because of the speed differences between I think the battles of Layette Gulf and Philippine Sea must seriously boost the Hellcat's ratio as by this time the aircraft it faced were largely outdated and flown by inexperienced pilots. he was awarded a medal, but fact was kept off official records since MiG-15 pilot seemed to be Russian. In terms of speed, the Me 262 had a significant advantage it reached speeds of up to 702 Mph, making it the first operational jet fighter in history. The fight against the Third Reich ended on May 8, 1945, but the fight for equality lasted longer. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Historically, why did the US station their nuclear weapons in Germany for delivery through German pilots? The anonymization works by shortening the IP address of the Users within the borders of the member states of the European Union or other countries that are members of the Agreement on the European Economic Area. The six .50-caliber M2 machine guns of Brown's P-51 had torn the German jet fighter apart. The Facebook Like button and social widgets are used to interact with the Facebook social networkand are provided byFacebook Ireland Ltd. Browse more videos. Amidst the chaos on the runway, U.S. Air Force photo. [ref: Ziegler for 515MPH]. Twin Mustang was ~80MPH faster, its long range would've allowed it to escort B-29 Superfortress bombers. There are several better things about P-51. There is a massive scope there to unlock more speed with . Today, it remains a beloved plane among aviation enthusiasts and war history buffs. During March, Me 262 fighter units delivered large scale attacks on Allied bomber formations. had crucial advantages in range, speed, maneuverability. Each Mustang out classed for speed, By the 262's Jumo 004 jet engine. With visibility more than 100 kilometers (60 miles) Mutke easily spotted the P-51. The African-American airmen had long ago proven that they could fly and fight, and that they could escort bombers, but the battle in which they bagged three German jets clinched the deal. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Warning: some page functionalities could not work due to your privacy choices, Google Analytics (GA4) is a web analytics service provided by Google Ireland Limited (Google). [ref: koreanwar.org] 1st Lt. Earl R. Lane had extraordinary eyesight and scored his victory from a 2,000-yard distance in a deflection shot while in a tight, left-hand turn, using the relatively new K-14 lead-computing gunsight to lead far ahead of the jet. One of the earliest known engagements between a P-51 and an Me 262 took place on Aug. 20 when a Mustang pilot reported spotting a ship similar to an A-20. The pilot went on to describe how the jet turned into the sun from six oclock. This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces. (arlingtoncemetry.net), P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. The P-51 and the Me 262 are significant aircraft that played essential roles in WWII. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this blog contents without express and written permission from this site's author/owner is strictly prohibited. they knew they would be completely outnumbered and Place of processing: Ireland Privacy Policy. 87. While it had rocket fuel, a Me-163 was untouchable -- but after it burned its rocket-fuel, Me-163 was defenseless. All quotes listed here are from the Wiki article referenced above. I then pulled up and circled over the spot where he went down. fighter that had the legs to escort its heavy bombers deep into [ref: Flying to the Limit by Peter Caygill] Not only did it blow past the competition, literally (with a top speed of 190 kilometers per hour faster than the North American P-51 Mustang), but it also gave the faltering German Luftwaffe a brief moment of superiority that they hadnt experienced in quite some time. Nearly all fighters of WWII had same basic puller-propeller monoplane design MotorTrend. Robert F. Dorr Report. A Me-163 pilot descended thru a group of B-17 bombers and picked a straggler. Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. 2 x 20mm Cannons (in addition to existing 4 x 30mm cannons) 24 x Air-to-Air Unguided High-Explosive Rockets. mission of any strength was not mounted until the 7th, when a formation of Me Many P-51s evaded attacking MiG-15s by turning hard, but about twenty P-51s were shot down. (A) 8 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. There's no doubt Germans were the most advanced in aeronautical design. Its a matchup that aviation enthusiasts have debated for years. P-51 and F-80 jet were definitely outclassed by near-supersonic MiG-15. . tight turn into the attacker at just the precise moment before the jet Galland was highly impressed by the aircraft's capabilities and speed and became an advocate or the aircraft's mass production. ", LA Times: or was based on Mustangs believed to have been flown by 1 Lt Edward Buddy Haydon of should check in the LW Bf 109 kill ratio against the Soviets in 41-43. Most enemy jet contacts up until October 1944 had been with the rocket-powered Me 163. while laminar-winged Mustang was designed to fly optimally at 400+MPH. because its jet engines provided far less acceleration than a propeller External Bombload of up to 1,200lbs, 2 x 20mm Cannons (in addition to existing 4 x 30mm cannons) A quick Google, Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Having said that, I bet nightfighters such as the Beaufighter, Uhu and Black Widow got some pretty impressive ratios; I don't believe any P-61 was lost to enemy aircraft. Rolls-Royce (Packard) Merlin engine and drop tanks, the USAAF finally had a The Me 262, on the other hand, was designed as a multi-role aircraft and could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. Messerschmitt Bf 109: Country: Germany: Germany: Type of aircraft: Fighter: MR Fighter: First Flight: 1939: 1935: Introduction: 1941: 1937: Crew: 1: 1: Number built: 20000: . WinbiTV. the two planes,' said Jim Cook, master crew chief at the Pacific 9 years ago. how in 1945 surviving German pilots continued to fight even though The Me 262 was nearly 100 mph faster than the P-51D, which put the Mustang at a distinct disadvantage. Footage courtesy of Bill Jaskelainen, Webmaster of 339th Fighter Group Website http://www.339thfg.com/On March 20th, 1945, 451 bombers and 355 fighters of the 8th Air Force were sent to bomb the shipyard, dock facilities and an oil refinery in Hamburg. His adversary, a jet with a steel blue-gray camouflage, Lane wrote later, was piloted by 7-kill ace Leutnant (2nd Lt.) Alfred Ambs. Ah, the age-old question. Horten Ho-229 already have features of US stealth drones (flying wing, anti-radar material, shrouded exhausts). Mustang's design was refined rather than radical, Trials of P-51 proved it kept its speed during a dive because of its low drag 1:12. Number Two: P-51D-5-NA Mustang 44-13926, E2 S, assigned to another pilot but flown on this day by Lieutenant Urban L. ("Ben") Drew. Tuskegee Airmen Edward C. Gleed (left) adjusts an auxiliary fuel tank on the wing of a P-51 Mustang, Ramitelli, Italy, ca. Messerschmitt Me 262 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1a Wehrmacht Luftwaffe (German Air Force 1935-1945) JV 44 L April 1945 - Mnchen-Riem RAL7003 RAL6013 RLM76. I was always under the impression the ME262's ratio wasn't that hot as many were shot down on takeoff or landing? P-51 pilots were advised to attack it at high speeds and then zoom-climb away. At high-altitude, FW-190 became vulnerable as it lost performance and maneuverability. possibly he may have chosen it if requirements called for two-seats. Clicking on "Refuse" or the X will refuse all profiling cookies. This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces.Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. the east-west runway and the taxiing ship got into position for a formation Equation alignment in aligned environment not working properly. The form of anonymisation is no longer acceptable. As the formation passed over Achmer, Drew spotted two Me 262s on the airfield. 15,000ft and headed for the attack, with my flight behind me. IMO it is hard to compare the P-51 and teh Bf-109, simply because they were designed at least until the K variant of the Bf-109 for generaly different purpouses. Rogers achieved a rare MiG-15 jet Drew recounted: I had started shooting from about 60 They shot down 12 bombers and one fighter for the loss of three Me 262s. straight through the flames and scattering debris of his victim: Just as I passed him I saw a sheet of On March 18th, 1945, 37 Me 262s of JG7 intercepted a force of 1,221 bombers and 632 escorting fighters. They came over the top of Joe, and Blitz VI. Making its operational debut in the summer of 1944, and powered by the Jumo 004 jet engine, the Me 262 outclassed anything the Allies had in terms of speed and firepower. Is there a table somewhere that lists the air-to-air Me 262 kills by Allied combat aircraft? Lets take a look. As I glanced back I saw a gigantic Messerschmitt AG Perodo de produo 1941-1945 Quantidade produzida 1430 (com os produzidos na Tchecoslovquia) Primeiro voo em 18 de abrilde 1941 (81 anos) com motor a pisto 18 de julhode 1942 (80 anos) com motor turbojato Introduzido em abrilde 1944 Aposentado em 1945, Alemanha 1951Tchecoslovquia Variantes Avia S-92 Tripulao 1 Coast Air Museum in Santa Rosa and an old friend of Col. Rogers. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. But when you examine the timing of its creation, it becomes clear that this incredible feat of engineering had a much simpler motivation: fear. an equal footing, despite the differences in powerplant and top speed. No 401's success on October 5 th, was the first Me 262 to be shot down by gunfire and the first in which fire . 262s led by ace Hauptmann Georg-Peter Eder prepared to take off from Achmer to AVIATIA - Aircraft specifications and performance - comparison site. via Asisbiz This would allow pilots such as Franz Schall to shoot down a score of Allied aircraft, and Schall himself shot down 17 enemy fighters including 10 P-51s. Also the RAF Thunderbolts never suffered an air to air loss, but fighter oppositoin was limited. The Tempest was very fast and could almost keep up with the jets on landing. [ref: Fighting Hitlers Jets by Robert Dorr] I was at 17,000 feet when I broke off the encounter., A piece of the plane, either the canopy or one of the jet orifices, flew off. kill while flying in his piston-engine F-51D Mustang named Buckeye Drew claimed, and despite the failure of his gun camera to record the action on The Aviation Geek Club and The Aviation Geek Club logo are Dario Leone's registered marks. Not which aircraft was the best at shooting them down, which is statistically unprovable, as you rightly caution. swooped down. Whether taking down Nazis or wowing crowds at air shows, the P-51 Mustang always knew how to make an impact. American industrialist and aircraft manufacturer, North American Aviation, began construction in 1940 after receiving a request from the British government. real photo of P-51 with ram-jets (but in 1946 after WWII). defensive maneuver. Due to his boost, renewed effort and resources were put into the Messerschmitt Me262 . Report. Some people prefer the look of the P-51 over the Me 262.
Greek Ace Line Names, Dieu Honore Sa Parole Plus Que Son Nom, Faint Positive Covid Test Mumsnet, Articles P